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The Neurodivergent Leader Podcast creates a safe space to explore paradigms around neurodiversity through humor, transparency and the commitment to empower all voices. Join hosts Heather Wagner and Donna McLaughlin as they elevate neurodivergent leaders and their contributions, share tools, advocate for access and acceptance and educate listeners on the strengths and challenges surrounding neurodiversity in today’s neurotypical world.
Episodes
Wednesday Jan 05, 2022
Wednesday Jan 05, 2022
“I feel really strongly that we need to provide a safe space for people to be able to come and investigate who they are and feel comfortable,” emphasizes Donna McLaughlin. In today’s inaugural edition of Pillar Talk, co-hosts Heather Wagner and Donna McLaughlin discuss the five competencies that their curriculum encompasses. They dive deep into how they developed the framework for their leadership program and the personal experiences that led them down this path.
Heather and Donna discuss how their personal relationships with neurodivergence paired with their individual backgrounds in leadership development and trauma-informed teaching has provided them with the expertise to create the framework for their neurodivergent leadership program. They then explain the five core competencies (The Five A’s) that they teach in their program for neurodivergent leaders: awareness, authenticity, action, accountability and advocacy.
Tune into this week’s episode of The Neurodivergent Leader Podcast to learn more about the pillars that Heather and Donna use to guide their work. If you are a neurodivergent individual who feels like you want to change your life, but you’re not quite sure where to start, don’t miss out on this conversation!
Quotes
• “I just feel really strongly that we need to provide a safe space for people to be able to come and investigate who they are and feel comfortable and not feel as if they’re being judged and not feel as if they’re being pathologized and not feel as if they have to mask or perform or do anything in order to be who they are and then get in community with one another and say, ‘How can we empower each other? How can we become more accountable, as well as how can I do all of those things?’ So that was where for me this whole idea kind of sparked.” (14:30-15:09 | Donna)
• “We believe in strength-based leadership development, and we believe in empowering people to own their strengths.” (24:33-24:42 | Heather)
• “What if we renamed it ‘The Great Restoration’ where we put humans and values back in the center?” (29:06-29:13 | Heather)
• “It’s the actual celebration of people’s differences that I think is going to be the catalyst to cracking open some of these issues. Most of us…hiding the parts of yourself that you feel the most ashamed about or that aren’t received well in the world by other people and make you vulnerable, those are the places that we need to actually crack open and let other people see inside of it so that we can heal from it…The actual healing comes in confronting it and getting it out there in the open and letting other people witness to it and support us through it that really the transformation and the change is going to occur.” (35:05-36:01 | Donna)
Learn more about the Neurodivergent Leader Podcast:
https://www.instagram.com/neurodivergentleader/
Wednesday Dec 29, 2021
Wednesday Dec 29, 2021
“You have more power than you think,” says Lisa Candera. Up until two years ago, Lisa lived in a constant state of stress over her son’s struggles, her responsibilities at work, and how to manage it all. She is a single mom of a teen with Autism, OCD, Anxiety and DMDD, life coach and lawyer. Lisa coaches moms raising kids with autism about how to manage their minds and regulate their emotions while their child is dysregulated.
On today’s episode, Donna and Lisa both share their experiences with learning how to trust their own instincts as a parent even when other people didn’t approve or understand. Lisa describes how she now understands when her own emotions and thoughts can begin to mirror those of her son. She tells listeners that with the tools she has developed through her experiences in therapy and coaching, she has learned how to “be the solid object” and to stay grounded when our children can’t.
Tune into this week’s episode of The Neurodivergent Leader Podcast to learn more about the importance of slowing down, preparation, and acceptance, so you can better navigate the challenges of special needs parenting AND thrive while doing it.
Quotes
• “Instead of defining ourselves by other people's perception of how our kids are doing, we need to define that on our own.” (09:50-09:57)
• “We can't make other people do, say, or think things, but we can control the way we're thinking and feeling about it.” (19:43-19:50)
• “External validation is great when you can get it, but if we're waiting around for it we might be waiting a long time, so you have to validate yourself.” (20:25-20:33)
• “We are the center of our experience of parenting a child with special needs in a world that's not made for them and doesn't have supports for us.” (22:07-22:16)
• “I've learned to not get into the weeds, stay like a little bit higher above it, watch what's happening, and be able to redirect him and also redirect myself.” (28:53-29:05)
• “In your child's life, you are the greatest resource. There's no medicine, therapy, or doctor that's more important than you are.” (36:28-36:38)
• “What are the ways that you can take what you have and make it beautiful?” (37:17-37:21)
Connect with Lisa Candera:
@theautismmomcoach
Learn more about the Neurodivergent Leader Podcast:
https://www.instagram.com/neurodivergentleader/
Wednesday Dec 22, 2021
Wednesday Dec 22, 2021
“Embrace your weird,” encourages Christina Stathopoulos, founder and head coach of Hear Her Roar, a leadership coaching company that focuses on empowering millennial women. In this episode, co-hosts Heather Wagner and Donna McLaughlin talk with special guest Christina about the importance of being openly yourself and leaning into your unique life experiences to empower both yourself and others.
Christina discusses each of her identities, including her relationship with being neurodivergent as an autistic woman and as a person with obsessive compulsive disorder. She shares with listeners how she has learned to embrace these identities rather than hiding them away. While Christina used to shy away from the parts of herself that were viewed as “weird” or “wrong,” she now proudly accepts and cherishes those pieces of herself, as they allow her to better connect with others and to be a better coach.
Tune into this week’s episode of The Neurodivergent Leader Podcast to learn more about how embracing your neurodivergence can empower you to find more success in both your personal life and your work life and inspire others to do the same. If you are someone who has ever been called “weird” or made to feel othered, don’t miss out on this conversation!
Quotes
• “When I first decided to become an entrepreneur, I was very much still in that world of ‘put out what is categorized as good and keep in what it categorized as wrong or bad about myself.’ And immediately where that halted me in the process of growing a business was I couldn’t figure out how to connect to clients and I couldn’t figure out how to pull in the people that I really craved to be working with. I think the reason for that was because I wasn’t willing to see traumas that I had been through or the things that made me different from other people as something to look at and process. I just saw them as that’s just in the way and I need to pull myself up by my bootstraps and forge ahead and push ahead.” (09:52-10:46)
• “Coaches need to start with having a very clear understanding of their own identity and having ownership of it.” (24:08-24:14)
• “Now I enter rooms and I go, ‘Hey I’m queer. I’m neurodivergent. I’m an immigrant’s daughter.’ These are ways that I’ve lived that inform how I view the world.” (25:25-25:35)
• “As a suggestion, just because you may have done the work to heal your relationship with some of your identities doesn’t mean that your clients have.” (29:17-29:28)
• “Embrace your weird, whatever that means…There are ways that you’ve lived your life that will be so crucial to other people getting to transform and connect differently because of you.” (34:57-35:32)
Connect with Christina Stathopoulos:
https://www.instagram.com/hearxtinaroar/
Learn more about the Neurodivergent Leader Podcast:
https://www.instagram.com/neurodivergentleader/
Wednesday Dec 15, 2021
Wednesday Dec 15, 2021
“I ask my child, ‘What do you need right now?’” explains Heather on how she responds to her child when she sees them struggling, or using what is perceived as negative behaviors. In this episode, co-hosts Heather Wagner and Donna McLaughlin discuss the way our society pathologizes behavior and how this can be harmful to both adults, and for a neurodivergent child’s development. They talk about alternative ways to think about behavior and how to respond productively in situations where a dysregulated child is demonstrating maladaptive behaviors.
Heather dives deep into a question she recently received from a parent regarding their child’s upcoming functional behavior analysis. Heather presents the idea that society has chosen to pathologize children’s behavior rather than understand the biology behind it. Donna and Heather explain that behavior is an involuntary response to a trigger. When a parent or teacher can identify the trigger behind a behavior, they can better understand what the child needs and correct the maladaptive behavior without being punitive.
Tune into this week’s episode of The Neurodivergent Leader Podcast to learn more about better regulating your own emotions before responding to a dysregulated child. If you are an educator or parent of a neurodivergent child and experiencing frustration with their behaviors, don’t miss out on this conversation!
Quotes
• “Behavior is typically not a choice. It’s a symptom or an involuntary response to an emotional trigger or some sort of event that is happening outside of our control.” (07:09-07:25 | Donna)
• “What we do in our society is we pathologize normal biological responses.” (12:57-13:02 | Heather)
• “If it’s a tantrum, you need to ignore it. And my heart broke because they’re all meltdowns. They’re all dysregulated states where a child needs a regulated caregiver and this is what the problem is.” (15:53-16:20 | Heather)
• “We are the adult in the situation. They are the child in the situation. If we as the adult cannot even control our own regulatory system in response to our child’s behavior, then how are we asking them either developmentally or as a human to be able to respond to things when they’re feeling very out of control or afraid or whatever it is that they’re experiencing?” (17:14-17:41 | Donna)
• “I ask my child, ‘What do you need right now?’” (24:57-25:12 | Heather)
• “I want everyone to understand what it is we’re dealing with, so we can better advocate and we can help co-regulate… Let’s take the shame and the punishment and the punitive and all of that trauma away.” (35:54-36:11 | Heather)
Learn more about the Neurodivergent Leader Podcast:
https://www.instagram.com/neurodivergentleader/
Friday Oct 15, 2021
Friday Oct 15, 2021
“I didn't used to say that I was autistic. Not because I'm ashamed of being autistic, but just for very practical reasons that I'm aware of the prejudice,” explains Joanna Grace, Founder of The Sensory Projects, Author and TEDx speaker. On this second installment of two-part conversation with Joanna Grace, co-hosts Heather and Donna ask Joanna about her experience with being an autistic mother, and how that led her son to become the youngest published author in the UK.
Joanna dives into the story of how her four-year-old son became a published author. Because Joanna is a primary school teacher, she tried everything to get her young son to continue writing over summer break. To fully comprehend how their minds process information differently, Joanna encouraged her son to draw pictures and write a book about having an autistic mother. This book showcases a five-year-old’s understanding of divergent minds from a simplified neurotypical perspective. This book is not only helpful for younger audiences, but also for neurotypical individuals who are having a difficult time understanding how the mind of an autistic person works.
Tune into the second installment of this two-part conversation with Joanna Grace to learn more about how autistic minds process information and how to understand neurodiversity through the lens of a four year old. Then, check out Joanna’s and her four-year-old son’s books using the links below!
Quotes
• “I didn't used to say that I was autistic. Not because I'm ashamed of being autistic, but just for very practical reasons that I'm aware of the prejudice.” (02:50-2:55 | Joanna Grace)
• “I was thinking, goodness, does he suffer from having an autistic mummy?” (4:30-04:33 | Joanna Grace)
• “Like many neurodivergent people I experienced delayed processing with language. So it's like it buffers as it goes into my brain.” (7:49-07:53 | Joanna Grace)
• Somebody, when they were talking about his authority to write this book said, you know, this little boy has lived 24/7 with an autistic person. So he's an expert, even though he's very young. (10:16-10:22)
• And so, yeah, he is the UK's youngest published author and his book My Mummy is Autistic talks about the language processing differences that I experienced. And it does so in a very pragmatic, mommy's brain is different. Words go in like this in her brain. This is what mommy's listening face looks like. This is what my listening face looks like. It's very matter of fact, it's very accepting and it's very celebratory. (12:14-13:00 | Joanna Grace)
• “Neurodiversity is natural. A lot of the deficit based narratives are possible to flip. You know, it's not that this is a particular strength or a particular weakness. It's just capacity in context.” (14:31-14:46 | Joanna Grace)
Connect with Joanna Grace:
7 Min SENCO: Autism
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLi1RQR58BHnW5LtJfD0Ph-RIH7EhnrP3t
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joannagracethesensoryprojects/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/jo3grace
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/JoannaGraceTSP
Stories: http://www.thesensoryprojects.co.uk/sensory-stories
Books: http://www.thesensoryprojects.co.uk/books
College: http://www.thesensoryprojects.co.uk/online-college
Learn more about the Neurodivergent Leader Podcast:
https://www.instagram.com/neurodivergentleader/
Friday Oct 15, 2021
Friday Oct 15, 2021
“Sensory stimulation isn't just a nice supporting actor in cognition. It's how the brain is wired in early development. So, it's the foundation stones of your cognitive abilities,” explains Joanna Grace, author, TEDx speaker, and founder of The Sensory Projects. On this special, two-part episode, co-hosts Heather and Donna engage in a discussion with Joanna about sensory stimulation, inclusion practices and how everyday life affects neurodivergent minds.
Joanna uses her personal experiences being Autistic to inform her work as an educator, teacher and leader. Joanna began working with children and building her resume to become an educator at the age of 13. Now, Joanna teaches other educators how to effectively convey lessons to both neurodivergent and neurotypical minds. She has published 25 of her own sensory stories that engage and support neurodivergent minds in conceptualizing various lesson topics. These stories, all part of The Sensory Story Project, illustrate that with the right knowledge and a little creativity, inexpensive items can become effective sensory tools for inclusive learning.
Tune into Part One of this two-part conversation with Joanna Grace to learn more about neurodivergent struggles in everyday life, in the classroom, and how sensory stories can lead to better comprehension, and retention of learning. Then, check out Joanna’s books and accomplishments using the links below!
Quotes
• “The Sensory Projects are based on the idea that you don't need expensive stuff, to create effective tools for inclusion.” (04:42-04:5)
• “You don't need the stuff. What you need is the knowledge and the understanding and little bits of creativity….It's not what you've got. It's what you do with it that counts.” (05:19-05:31)
• “Sensory stimulation isn't just a nice supporting actor in cognition. It's how the brain is wired in early development. So it's the foundation stones of your cognitive abilities.” (07:30-07:36)
• “I give myself a rule of thumb. I have a maximum of 10 sentences to tell a sensory story. And then each of those sentences is partnered with a rich and relevant sensory experience.” (08:53-08:59)
• “I know lots of autistic youngsters who are very happy to repeatedly do the same thing over and over again, to watch it with great interest. And other people will say that they're doing the same thing again, they've got stuck, they're bored….The research around autistic brains shows that we are seeing things in more detail. We tend to be hypervisual, we process more visual information.” (16:45-17:12)
• “I think that society is missing out in a very genuine way from experiencing the richness of human diversity, be that neurodivergence, or physical disability or profound disability, like the people that I work on behalf of. Because having that inclusion is a massive message that we are all different. We are all different.” (28:51-29:08)
Connect with Joanna Grace:
7 Min SENCO: Autism
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLi1RQR58BHnW5LtJfD0Ph-RIH7EhnrP3t
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joannagracethesensoryprojects/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/jo3grace
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/JoannaGraceTSP
Website: www.thesensoryprojects.co.uk
Stories: http://www.thesensoryprojects.co.uk/sensory-stories
Books: http://www.thesensoryprojects.co.uk/books
College: http://www.thesensoryprojects.co.uk/online-college
Learn more about the Neurodivergent Leader Podcast:
https://www.instagram.com/neurodivergentleader/
Friday Oct 15, 2021
Friday Oct 15, 2021
Do you or your child struggle with planning, organization, focus or emotional regulation? If so, you are not alone. On today’s episode of The Neurodivergent Leader, co-hosts Heather and Donna interview the Head of Educational Services at Learnfully, Jess Corinne. Heather, Donna and Jess engage in a topical discussion about recognizing neurodivergent behaviors early on in a child’s life and how to properly teach neurodivergent children. Today’s episode is a must-listen for teachers, students, parents and leaders who are interested in learning about and recognizing executive function challenges in children and in themselves.
Jess Corinne dives into her career as a teacher and educator studying neurodivergent tendencies and different learning strategies in young children. Because Jess is neurodivergent herself as are two of her three children, she has seen time and again where the education system falls short when it comes to neurodivergent minds. Jess tried out several different positions in the realm of education before landing on her current job at Learnfully, a personalized learning platform that provides multi-sensory, evidence-based remediation and enrichment support to neurodivergent students of all ages.
Tune into this episode of The Neurodivergent Leader for an insightful conversation with Jess Corinne about empowering neurodiversity, understanding how we learn, and recognizing the signs of learning challenges early on.
Quotes
• “It was magical for me to see that immediate reinforcement, the immediate gratification that comes from a learner realizing their potential and then leaning into the struggle to adversity and rising above.” (03:24-03:33 | Jess Corrine)
• “To be able to see a learner for who they are and what they need and recommend pinpointed only exactly what can fill their needs and help them reach their full potential was just absolutely fantastic for me.” (05:46-05:59 | Jess Corrine)
• “Whether it's a formal label like ADHD or autism, or whether it's just a divergence in learning style, I think we as parents don't fully understand all of these different pieces of how learning happens. We just think you go to school, you sit, you learn and that's just how it goes.” (9:07-09:22 | Heather Wagner)
• “We ask a lot of our learners without explicitly developing these underlying skills that impact every aspect of everything they do.” (14:56-15:03 | Jess Corrine)
• “It really is working and refining those underlying sensory cognitive functions that are responsible for each and every one of these components, sub skills. And quite honestly, just like any other ability behavior habit, it takes work and it takes explicit training routine and consistency.” (15:50-16:01 | Jess Corrine)
• “I think those are things that parents need to recognize as well, just because your child is functioning at a really high level, doesn't necessarily mean that they're not struggling and under a considerable amount of stress.” (20:10-20:25 | Donna)
• “Learning how you learn is really empowering.” (28:52-28:55 | Jess Corrine)
• “If you teach learners and help them experience and discover what works for them, then they have the ability to turn that around as they propel through the academic trajectory, but also to advocate for themselves.” (29:03-29:11 | Jess Corrine)
• “Without that ability to use highly preferred tasks and interests, you never tried. Dive deep enough to tap into your own potential and see what you can do with yourself. See what you can overcome.” (38:03-38:14 | Jess Corrine)
• "To take a deep breath to know that learners will find their path, that we're all in this together. It's really just taking a step back, taking perspective and maintaining the mindset and the open, the open eyes, open ears, open hearts that your learner will realize and reach their potential when they receive personalized attention and support that it will be okay.” (39:24-39:48 | Jess Corrine)
Links
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jess-corinne-32ab39135/
https://www.instagram.com/neurodivergentleader/
Friday Oct 01, 2021
Friday Oct 01, 2021
“So many people see organization as very rigid and it has to be a specific way. It’s how you want to design it for your life. It's very personal,” says Jennifer Major, Holistic Organizer and Productivity Specialist. Jennifer started her career as an HR rep and soon learned that this wasn't her niche. Along the way, though, she discovered her passion for giving close friends organizational advice and decided to pursue this as a full-time career instead.
On today’s episode, Jennifer dives deep into the ins and outs of organization, specifically for the neurodivergent mind. She explains the importance of aligning our spaces and schedules for a less stressful approach to organization. She uses the example of losing your keys in your space: it sets you back a few minutes and ultimately sidetracks your entire schedule. Jennifer explains that losing your keys once or twice is perfectly normal, but if it is an everyday occurrence, an organizational connection between your spaces and schedules needs to be a priority.
Tune into today’s episode of The Neurodivergent Leader to hear more of Jennifer’s organizational tips and tricks. Learn about the importance of a value-based system when it comes to organization, how to schedule out time for simple things like taking a nap, and why the neurodivergent mind can benefit from connecting their spaces and schedules.
Quotes
• "Using a value-based system to organize will help you figure out exactly what you want to do and your way of doing it" (6:07-6:15)
• “I’ve had neurodivergent clients, and that community is who needs the organization the most and the mentally ill.” (14:02-14:07)
• “Our space and our schedules are very much intertwined.” (18:27-18:31)
• “Really only about 40% of our day should be truly scheduled.” (21:26-21:29)
• “We tend to see things in massive projects.” (26:36-26:40)
Links
https://www.cultivating-you.com/links
https://www.instagram.com/neurodivergentleader/
Friday Oct 01, 2021
Friday Oct 01, 2021
“What is the most important thing you have learned in your life thus far?” asks Kacey Cardin, Executive Leadership coach and TedX speaker. On this kickoff episode of The Neurodivergent Leader Podcast, special guest Kacey Cardin flips the script and interviews co-hosts Heather and Donna about their experiences with neurodiversity.
Donna opens up about her social anxiety and how peers often perceived her as judgmental, when in reality this stemmed from shyness and insecurity. Donna shares her experience as an educator for over twenty years and why she is now actively trying to repair a broken system that provides neurodivergent students with little to no support. She shares how listening and empathy are her greatest strengths, and through listening to her clients she is able to implement changes and methods that are more inclusive and accessible.
Heather, a neurodivergent leader and serial entrepreneur is passionate about spreading awareness around accepting your neurodivergent tendencies instead of hiding them. She opens up about her sobriety and how alcohol acted as a safety blanket for her in uncomfortable and overwhelming social situations. Heather warns listeners of the dangers of “masking” to cover up neurodivergent behaviors and provides tips on how to feel confident and embrace your differences.
Tune in to this week's episode of The Neurodivergent Leader to hear guest Kacey Cardin interview co-hosts Donna and Heather about all things neurodivergence and ask some hard-hitting and wisdom-filled questions.
Quotes
• “I spent my whole life being told that I was lazy, that I just didn't care enough.” (3:03-3:08 | Kacey)
• “The vision, the strategy, the pattern recognition and the innovation, the creativity. Those are amazing strengths my neurodivergence gives me.” (16:33-16:40 | Heather)
• “What is the most important thing you have learned in your life thus far?” (17:48-17:51 | Kacey)
• “Love without judgement.” (19:05-19:07 | Donna)
• “We want to see a world where personal values and personal leadership and personal contribution are the ways in which we build teams and organizations, so that we can be a more inclusive, accepting society.” (32:02-32:13 | Heather)
• "Love yourself, live your dreams.” (35:36-36:38 | Donna)
Links
https://www.kaceycardincoaching.com/
https://www.instagram.com/neurodivergentleader/
Wednesday Jul 21, 2021
Wednesday Jul 21, 2021
Welcome to The Neurodivergent Leader Podcast with hosts Heather Wagner and Donna McLaughlin!
Heather and Donna believe that everyone deserves access to opportunities for leadership development and personal growth. That is why they are on a mission to empower neurodivergent talent with the tools to become the authentic leaders they were meant to be.
This podcast will:
• Provide a safe space for the open-minded exploration and celebration of differences.
• Feature the narratives of neurodivergent leaders, advocates and experts, as well as Heather and Donna’s own stories about living with and loving neurodivergent people.
• Reveal the challenges of being neurodivergent in a neurotypical world.
• Explore the power of shifting from an old paradigm of deficits and brokenness to a paradigm of strengths, acceptance and access.
Whether you are an aspiring leader, entrepreneur, professional or parent raising future leaders, this podcast has something for everyone. Thank you for joining us!
To learn more about The Neurodivergent Leader Podcast, visit the following links:
https://www.instagram.com/neurodivergentleader/
Podcast production and show notes provided by FIRESIDE Marketing